Emile had a very serious execution date set for January 24, 1996, but there were numerous questions about Emile's competence for execution. Simply put, competence for execution means that the person being executed understands that he is being executed, what that means, and the reason for the execution. Texas has not standards for determining execution competence, or procedures to be followed should it be determined that someone is incompetent. In November of 1995, Emile was taken to a courtroom in Brownsville. Dr. Collier, a psychiatrist for the state, pronounced him competent for execution. Emile was not represented by counsel. No testimony was given on his behalf. The entire procedure took less than 20 minutes. 

Although the transcript of the entire interview is displayed here, space limitations make it impossible for us to bring you the entire interview in Real Audio form. The first 35 minutes available here are very typical of the entire interview. Our intention is to let visitors to this site gain some understanding the extend of his mental disabilities. As you read through the transcript, you will come to the audio start buttons. This interview is divided into three segments, with a small overlap (to establish continuity) between segments. Unfortunately, the quality of the recording is very poor. Use this transcript to follow along. 

Date: January 4, 1996

Involved Parties: Emile Duhamel (ED) Amy R. Shugart (AS) and Gregory W. Wiercioch (GW)

Place: Death Row, Ellis Unit, Huntsville, Texas

ED: I told you I don't want to be bothered.

GW: Hi, Mr. Duhamel.

ED: I told you I don't want to be bothered.

GW: [To the prison guard] Can you give us a little space, please.

ED: I don't want to be bothered.

GW: Hi, Mr. Duhamel.

ED: I don't want to be bothered.

AS: Do you understand that we're your attorneys?

ED: Not my attorney, no. I just fired you.

AS: No, the court appointed me.

ED: I don't care. I don't know why the court appointed you. The State told me I'm getting released.

AS: When did the--who told you?

ED: The State told me--the State of Harlingen--

AS: The State of--?

ED: --told me I'm getting released.

AS: Who told you?

ED: The State.

AS: A person?

ED: Yes, a state, state--people, people. You want to go to court now, and all that stuff? They're the ones sending me to get released.

AS: When are you getting released?

ED: Two or three months from now.

AS: You're going to be killed on January twenty-fourth.

ED: No, no. You don't know what you're talking about. Who told you that?

GW: Emile? Do you know that you have an execution date--

ED: No, I don't.

GW: --for January twenty-fourth--

ED: No, I don't. No, I don't. No, you don't.

GW: --of this year?

ED: No, you don't.

GW: It's about--

AS: You do.

ED: No, I don't.

GW: It's about three weeks from now, sir.

ED: No, it ain't. I don't care. I got my own lawyer. I told you.
GW: Who's your attorney?

ED: I told you my attorney's Charles Seroulas [phonetic], from Massachusetts.

GW: Charles who?

ED: Seroulas.

GW: Seroulas?

ED: Yes.

GW: Uh-huh. And do you--?

ED: He's from Massachussetts. He's been directing my case. He said I'm all recovered for murder one.

GW: But you--excuse me?

ED: Clear, I'm clear. I've not got no more murder charges against me.

GW: Uh-huh.

ED: It's all dropped.

GW: Do you remember, sir, going down to Brownsville a few months ago?

ED: Yeah.

GW: Do you know why you were down there?

ED: I went down there for a hearing.

GW: For a hearing?

ED: Yes.

GW: Do you know what happened at that hearing?

ED: It was a hearing, that's all.

GW: What was the purpose of that hearing? Do you know?

ED: The hearing was for a jury trial for a blackmail charge against me.

GW: The charges are blackmailed against you?

ED: Yes.

GW: And how did that happen? I mean what--can you tell me about that?

ED: That was nobody's business.

GW: Well, we're trying--

ED: If you want to find out, you have to find out your own self.

GW: We're trying to--we're trying to help you, Emile.

ED: I don't need no help.

GW: Why don't you think you need any help?

ED: I just told you, I don't need you. I got a lawyer.
GW: Why don't you need any--?
 

ED: The State represented me that lawyer in Massachussetts.

GW: Was he down there, at the hearing that you went to?

ED: The hearing that he went to. I didn't go to that hearing in Massachussetts.

GW: No, I'm talking about--the hearing was in Massachussetts?

ED: Yeah.

GW: For your case?

ED: Yeah.

GW: The one in Texas?

AS: Did you go to a hearing?

ED: Texas? What do you mean the one in Texas? That's dropped. They dropped them charges against him.

AS: Against who?

ED: Against Duhamel.

AS: Who are you?

ED: Charles Savoulous [phonetic].

AS: What--what is your name, sir?

ED: [inaudible]

AS: And why are you here?

ED: Why I'm here? I'm here because they got a warrant on me.

AS: For what?

ED: For a burglary charge.

AS: Do you know that you're on Death Row, sir?

ED: I know, but I'm supposed to get extradited someplace else.

AS: When are you going to be extradited?

ED: Pretty soon.

GW: Who's Emile Duhamel?

ED: Me.

GW: Well, you just--

ED: I adopted that name knee-high. I adopted that name.

GW: You adopted that name?

ED: Yes. That's not my real name.

GW: And what's your real name now?

ED: My real name, right now? I don't know. The State didn't put me through another name.

GW: But you said Charles--?

ED: Charles Seroulas is my attorney.

GW: Charles Seroulas is your attorney, okay.

ED: Yes.

GW: And do you have--you adopted the name Emile Duhamel?

ED: Yes, that's my adopted name, that's all.

AS: What's your real name?

ED: My real name? I don't know my real name. They gave me that since I was knee-high.

AS: Oh, when you were a little boy?

ED: Little boy, right.

GW: Uh-huh.

AS: And why are you here?

ED: Why I'm here? I'm here because I had a murder charge against me. Are you a [inaudible]?

AS: Excuse me?

ED: Are you a psychiatrist?

GW: No, we're not.

AS: No, I'm not a psychiatrist. I am your attorney.

ED: You're not my attorney.

AS: The court appointed me to represent you, because you have been convicted of the crime of capital murder.

ED: Capital murder. How many times can you appeal?

AS: We have appealed quite a number of times, but the state court--

ED: I appealed through the court, court, court, court.

AS: Yes.

ED: I got a right to go to court, because I haven't been to my jury trial in court.

AS: You have had your jury trial. They convicted you.

ED: I'm the one who answered the questions by the judge and to the jury--not you.

AS: Correct, sir.

ED: My attorney right now is listening to my case in court.

AS: You have been convicted of the crime of capital murder. Do you understand that?

ED: Yes, well, I know. Same thing--same thing as murder.

GW: Well, the only difference is, Emile, that you're going to be executed.

ED: I've already been executed one time--that's all.

GW: You have? When did that happen?

ED: When that happened? When I got released from Harlingen to Huntsville.

AS: What does it mean to be executed?

ED: Executed means put to sleep.

AS: And?

ED: And take the crystals away from you.

GW: What crystals are those?

ED: Crystals of life.

GW: Uh-huh. And you say you've already been executed once?

ED: Yes.

GW: And that--that was--?

ED: When I was on the same charges, the same charges that you're going through right now. Jonette.

GW: The murder charge?

ED: The murder charge, right.

GW: Do you remember when that happened?

ED: Oh yeah, I remember the whole thing.

GW: When did that happen? Can you tell me?

ED: She was in concrete.

GW: Excuse me?

ED: She was in concrete.

GW: In concrete?

ED: Yeah.

GW: Who was that?

ED: Jonette.

AS: Who's Jonette?

GW: Jonette.

ED: Jonette is the one that died.

GW: Uh-huh. And she's in concrete?

ED: She's been put in concrete. He's a witness that, that she died.

AS: Who's a witness that she died?

ED: He is--Emile Duhamel. He's a witness that he died. She died of cancer, of concrete.

GW: Concrete. Uh-huh. And when--you were executed for this already, you said?

ED: Yeah, I already been executed. They already executed me one time.

GW: Well, how did they do that? How are you here now?

ED: They take the crystals out of me in Brownsville. There's a hospital there--

AS: And how are you alive now?

ED: --where they take the crystals out of you.

GW: And they took the--but how are you here now, talking to us?

ED: I'm talking to you because--they only take the crystals out of you. You don't understand crystals?

GW: No, I don't know. Tell me about them. I don't know.

ED: Oh. Well, crystals is something that keeps you alive, and when you die, the universe takes--keeps your breath up in here. Then your new life begins.

AS: Did you get new crystals?

ED: Yeah, I got new crystals. And then that was a little bit of the universe, since I was a little child [inaudible]. They picked me up and new life begins.

AS: Well, on January twenty-fourth, the State is going to inject you and kill you, so that you will not come back.

ED: Well, I've got an appointment for the State. The State was on my, my machine, and they said that I was getting released.

GW: What machine is that?

ED: The machine they put on you, when you're in the, in the--what do you call it?

GW: In Brownsville?

ED: In Brownsville. They put a machine on you.

GW: They put a machine on you?

ED: Yeah. They open you up, inside--

GW: Uh-huh.

ED: --and they put a machine inside of you.

AS: Who put a machine inside of you?

ED: They did--Brownsville.

AS: Who?

ED: They put a machine inside of me, to keep an eye on me--find out do I have any more charges on me at all, like breaking and entering, burglary, murder.

GW: And how do you know there's a machine in you?

ED: I seen it, when they were going inside me.

GW: When they put it in, you saw it?

ED: Yeah, I saw it coming in.

GW: And why did they put it in you?

ED: They put it in me to keep an eye on me, here.

GW: To keep an eye you here?

ED: Yeah.

GW: Okay.

AS: And when did they do this?

ED: They did that the day I was arrested. They put the machine on me, and they inject me to a murder one, and they have witnesses where you was at the time that murder was committed. They picked me up [inaudible] all night long, day after, day after, day after, day after.

AS: Is the machine still inside of you?

ED: See, they put it in [inaudible] missing five days, and he had some witnesses up to ten days, [inaudible] to see who it was. And they arrested him, because he wouldn't testify in court--that she had put State's evidence that she didn't lift her skirt up.

GW: That she didn't--?

ED: She didn't lift her skirt up. They said that she lifted her skirt up. She didn't lift her skirt up.

GW: And you said you've already been executed for that?

ED: Yeah.

GW: I don't understand though. When you're executed though, you die. Do you know what that means, when you die?

ED: I know when you die.

GW: What does that mean? Can you tell me?

ED: When you die, you come back to life again though.

GW: Uh-huh. Well, how do you come back to life?

ED: You've got five life terms.

GW: You get five life terms?

ED: Yeah, everybody's got five life terms. So, I've got five life terms.

GW: How many do you have left?

ED: I have four.

GW: You have four left?

ED: Listen, listen, touched. That's when they take off.

GW: But--do you know what it means to be executed? When you're executed, you don't come back. They put you to death.

ED: They gave me an injection shot, put me to sleep. I woke up and I can see the machine going inside me.

AS: But this time--

GW: How does that keep you alive?

ED: The machine doesn't keep you alive, it's just a machine, to check you out, find out if you've got any charges against you is all. That's all.

GW: Besides the machine, though, how do you come back to life, after you have already been executed?

ED: You come back to life ordered by the universe, and the universe touches you in a certain way, and you wake up.

GW: Who touches you? The universe?

ED: The universe does.

GW: And where are you when the universe touches you? Where are you?

ED: Right there, in the same spot where you're supposed to be laying at.

GW: Where you're being executed?

ED: Yeah, executed.

GW: Uh-huh. And you say you still have four lives left?

ED: Four lifetimes.

GW: So, even if you're executed on the twenty-first [sic], you're not worried about that?

ED: No.

GW: Because you still have--

ED: Right. I still have three--

GW: You would still have three left after that.

ED: --three left. And I still got the jury trial.

AS: What jury trial?

ED: I could have another jury trial.

AS: No, you can't.

ED: Oh, yes, I can. I got witnesses.

GW: So, you have witnesses. Who are these witnesses?

ED: I got witnesses--whereabouts where I was at the time the murder was committed.

AS: What time--what are their names?

ED: I don't know the names of them. They're all witnesses about where I was at the time that murder was committed.

GW: And how are these--how are they going to help you? They're going to tell you--?

ED: They're going to say in court, whereabouts where I was at the time that murder was committed.

GW: Uh-huh.

ED: The same thing the guy just said to you, inside of me, is a voice machine, and it talks to me, all day long and night. It says, about how the State's going to extradite me to another place, because I'm not even supposed to be in here. I'm a female, not a male. I got stuck with this [pointing to his body], all about this [inaudible] of the family that adopted me is sick in the head. They all strangled me three times.

AS: They strangled you three times, your family?

ED: Three times, yes.

AS: And you lived through that?

ED: I lived through that, and after I lived through that I was--same thing through the family again. The family said, "We'll let you go. We'll let you get a life, where you want to live it."

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GW: You say you're actually a female?

ED: Yeah, I'm a female this time.

GW: How do you have that body then?

ED: I got a female inside of me, all up inside of me, with the doctor. The doctor said that he fell when he was a baby, and when he died three times, he was a male. Male, female, female, male.

GW: Uh-huh.

ED: And there's nothing I can do.

GW: Well, if you die again, then what happens?

ED: I'll be a female.

GW: Do you remember--?

ED: One male, one female. One was a female, supposed to be three females. I've got six females inside of me, and in Brownsville, they touched me for the murder charge--that was a phony murder charge [inaudible].

GW: It was a what?

ED: They wouldn't let my witnesses testify.

AS: When?

ED: My witnesses testified--wouldn't let my witnesses testify in court.

GW: Who did you have to testify?

ED: I don't want to say his name. If I say his name, he'll get pissed off on me. He said not to say anything.

GW: How is he going to help you? How are we going to help you, if we don't have his name?

ED: He's going to help me through court. He's going to fix it up with [inaudible].

AS: But we're your lawyers. If you tell us his name, we'll have him testify for you.

ED: No, that's alright. I've got a lawyer.

GW: Okay, well--

ED: I've got a lawyer.

AS: What state are you in now?

ED: What state? I'm in the State of Huntsville.

AS: You're in what?

ED: Huntsville.

GW: Huntsville.

AS: What state are you in?

ED: State of Huntsville.

GW: Do you remember a Dr. Collier? Do you remember that name? Do you remember that he came and--when you went down to Brownsville a few months ago, that he came and talked to you?

ED: I told him not to bother me. I got my own lawyer.

GW: You told him not to bother you?

ED: Yes. It's not going to help. I don't need no doctor. I've seen the doctor in Brownsville, he said that I'm not crazy. And I've seen the doctors down there in Houston. They say I'm not nuts.

GW: Uh-huh.

ED: I'm very normal.

AS: When did you see doctors in Houston?

ED: Houston? The day I came in here, I seen them.

GW: Do you remember--what did Dr. Collier tell you?

ED: Dr. Collier?

GW: Yes. When you saw him in Brownsville.

ED: Oh, he said that I was normal. I'm not guilty of no murder charge.

GW: Uh-huh. Well, did he tell you why he was talking to you?

ED: He said that the State wanted to appeal my case again.

GW: To appeal your case?

ED: Yes.

GW: Why did they want to appeal it?

ED: They appealed it because I ain't guilty.

GW: Uh-huh.

ED: I wanted to see if I could get my crystals back.

GW: I see--and the State is going to help you get those crystals back?

ED: Yeah.

GW: Okay. And Dr. Collier, did he--what did he ask you? What kind of questions did he ask you?

ED: He asked me about life, about children, and all that stuff.

GW: About children?

ED: [nods]

GW: Uh-huh. And what other kinds of questions?

ED: He asked me about life outside, and all that--

GW: Uh-huh.

ED: --about automobiles, and trains, and life, what do you do outside.

GW: Did he ask you about if you were on any medications, or things like that?

ED: Oh, no.

GW: No?

ED: I ain't on no medications. This is to help me with some nerves. I'm nervous. [motions to right hand]

GW: Oh, is that what that's--the shaking?

ED: Yeah.

GW: In your arm?

ED: Yeah.

GW: It's from a nervous condition?

ED: Yes. Being locked up too. That'd drive somebody nuts.

GW: What--oh, blocked up?

ED: Locked up in here.

GW: Oh, right, right. Well, do you know how long you've been here now?

ED: Five years, six years.

GW: Five or six years? And do you remember--do you know what month it is right now?

ED: This is January.

GW: Uh-huh. What day--?

ED: Nineteen ninety-six.

GW: Uh-huh. And what's today?

ED: Today's the fourth.

GW: The fourth? Now, do you remember what date I told you would the execution, this other execution--

ED: Oh, I don't worry about that.

GW: Well, do you know what date it is?

ED: No, I forgot.

GW: It's going to be January twenty-fourth. And that's the date that they're going to take you--

ED: They're supposed to extradite me, the twentieth.

GW: The twentieth?

ED: Twentieth. To another penitentiary. Female penitentiary.

GW: Another female penitentiary?

ED: The State said that--you know, the State--a group of people, they want to [inaudible]. They said [inaudible] "I extradite you for a jury trial. I extradite you." The State, State personnel in court.

GW: Do you remember the hearing, that was--that took place on November twentieth? Just a couple months ago?

ED: Right.

GW: Down in Brownsville, down in Harlingen. Do you remember that? That you were at a hearing?

ED: Yeah, I remember that, but I, I--

GW: Can you tell me who was there? I'm just trying to find out who--

ED: I was trying--I was going to extradite me to a jury trial. They kept on saying, "Hold on back. Hold on back, not yet."

AS: Was there a jury at that hearing?

ED: In the Harlingen? Yeah, there was a jury.

AS: No, just in November--just this past November?

ED: Yeah.

AS: A few months ago?

ED: It could have been a few months after, in Brownsville? There was a jury.

AS: No, just a few months ago.

ED: A few months ago? After I came in here again.

AS: No, a few months ago, when you just went down to see Dr. Collier.

ED: Oh, right.

AS: And then you had a hearing.

ED: Right.

AS: Was there a jury in--?

ED: Right. I had a hearing, but that's all it was--it was a--it was just burglary.

AS: Was there a jury at that hearing?

ED: It was a burglary charge.

GW: They had you for a burglary charge?

AS: No, that was for the execution hearing.

ED: He said--he didn't say [inaudible], the judge said.

AS: Not extradition, execution.

ED: He didn't say execution. He didn't say that. He said to extradite me in two weeks around--for the, for the murder rap. But he didn't know what's going on. The State told me this, as soon as I get here, that I was cleared.

AS: What was the name of the judge at this hearing?

ED: Judge Hester.

AS: Judge Hester?

ED: Yes.

AS: Did Judge Hester tell you that you were going to be executed?

ED: He said I was going to be extradited, with a jury trial again, [inaudible]. He said, "No, you can't do that. I'm the judge, and I'm going to send you [inaudible]. I think you're guilty of murder, and that's it--it's finished."

AS: That's what the judge said?

ED: That's what the judge said.

AS: And what is he going to do now?

ED: Going to do nothing. I told him that the State's the one that's been handling my case.

GW: The State? Well, what about this attorney?

ED: I got an attorney from the State. He hasn't even helped me yet.

GW: Well, do you know that at that hearing in November, that the judge--that's when he set an execution date for you?

ED: He had no legal right to do that. A judge, a judge has no right to make appointments.

AS: Who does Judge Hester work for?

ED: He works for the State.

AS: Judge Hester set an execution date for you.

ED: Well, he can't set an execution date.

AS: Yes--

ED: [inaudible] by the State, yes. The State of Harlingen. But this is the State of Huntsville.

GW: The State of--so who did, who did you say is going to release you? The State of--?

ED: The State of Huntsville is going to release me.

GW: Huntsville's going to release you?

ED: Huntstville.

GW: And how did you find that out?

ED: I found that out through the machine, through the machine they got on me.

GW: Uh-huh.

ED: They said they're going to extradite me out.

GW: And when did they tell you that? When did the machine--?

ED: Today.

GW: Today?

ED: Yeah.

GW: Uh-huh. And can you tell me some of the other attorneys' names that you've had in the past?

ED: Yeah, the attorneys I had were telling me to plead guilty to murder one. They said I was guilty, fingerprints and footprints--the whole bit.

GW: Uh-huh.

ED: And I said, "Yeah, that's nice. I could but the police ain't got nothing on me." [inaudible] my fingerprint on the--on the shirt. And that's all it was. And I touched her on the shirt, that's all. I told her not to go down in the corn fields. She went down to the corn fields, she went down there with her brother. And her brother got [inaudible], a man with a truck, a cement truck. Put them in there, and turned them around. I chased them with my truck. [inaudible] I turned them in to the police department [inaudible]. Police arrested me for murder.

GW: And then you went to trial, right?

ED: I went into trial.

GW: And what happened then?

ED: [inaudible] the trial, they told me I was guilty for murder one, [inaudible] murder one. "We've got fingerprints--they're all over Jonette and her brother." So, that was all there was.

GW: And you know you were found guilty at that trial?

ED: I was found guilty of murder, and they put me up here for injection shot.

GW: Excuse me--they did what?

ED: They put me up here for injection shot.

GW: For the injection shot? And that's--

ED: Gave me the injection shot--and my crystals, the crystals fell down--when the crystals fall down, you're dead.

GW: And that's when you were executed?

ED: Yes. Yeah, I was executed for that charge. I was--

GW: How many years ago was that? Do you know?

ED: Ever since I came in here.

GW: So you were executed a long time ago?

ED: Yes, I had a new warrant on me. And I came in here--I signed the warrant--because they kept my name on the teletype. And when--on the computer in jail, authorized, like the teletype--type it out on paper--newspaper?

GW: Uh-huh.

ED: That you're guilty of murder, guilty of rape, guilty of homosexual assault and battery. They had everything on it. They pin everything on him. [inaudible]. They pin everything on me. Down there, down there on the police file, they print my name--print my name, and my name came out in the newspaper--that Emile Duhamel is guilty of murder. They ain't supposed to do that. I don't like this.

GW: Why did they do that?

ED: I might be--not guilty. I didn't have my jury trial yet, I didn't have no witnesses in court.

GW: Why did they do that?

ED: What?

GW: Why did they do that to you?

ED: I don't know.

GW: No?

ED: I don't know why that police officer was pissed off--it was a case that happened with witnesses. They don't remember that. [inaudible] on the machine--hit him in the head, knocked him out. When he woke up, he was in jail--he was in jail. I woke up and was in jail.

GW: Uh-huh.

ED: [inaudible] I hear the machine talking and this voice was not the same, right? Alright. That's all I want to know.

GW: Do you know what's going to happen on January twenty-fourth, this year?

ED: This year? No.

GW: Okay. Again, that's--

ED: What's going to happen?

GW: Well, that's the date Judge Hester has set for your execution.

ED: Well, he has no right to set that.

GW: Why doesn't he have the right to do that?

ED: A judge?

GW: Right.

ED: If he listens to the jury--constantly, he'd go nuts.

AS: What will happen if the State executes you?

ED: Executes me?

AS: What will happen if they inject you?

ED: Well, let them inject me. I don't care.

AS: And what will happen if they execute you?

ED: Execute me and put me asleep forever?

AS: Yes.

ED: No such thing.

AS: There's no such thing?

ED: No. How many people get turned loose to normal? I know a lot of cases, right now, in the State of Harlingen, they're guilty of murder. They even talked about they're guilty of murder. And they got released, all by the church.

AS: If the State kills you, what will happen to you?

ED: Kills me? That's the way it goes.

AS: What will happen to you after that?

ED: I just come back to life and live my life again.

GW: How long will it take you to come back to life?

ED: I don't know. That depends on the universe.

GW: Are you going to come back here?

ED: I don't know. I hope not. [laughter]

GW: Well, what happened after the first time they executed you?

ED: Executed me? I don't know. I'm here because I have a warrant on me.

GW: You said you were executed once before for this crime, right?

ED: Right--executed in Brownsville. Harlingen extradited me through a jury trial, and gave me a small jury trial--just five witnesses, [inaudible]--they didn't testify.

GW: Why didn't they testify?

ED: I don't know.

AS: If they kill you, and you're dead, and they bury you, then what will happen to you?

ED: It depends where they bury me at. If they bury me out where it's coming from, I'll have it made.

AS: Why? How will you have it made?

ED: Because, the way it's coming from, it's coming from the east--not the east, but the west, if it's coming from the west, [inaudible]. If it's coming down from the west, and beating down on top of us. And then he can see it--[inaudible], and bring you back to life again.

AS: If they--if they bury you, will you be able to come back and be alive again?

ED: Yeah.

AS: How will you do that?

ED: How will I do that? Ordered by the universe--I'm pretty smart myself. I know the universe pretty good. I got my belly-button all jammed up--my belly-button? And I hurt my belly-button and I didn't even [inaudible]. He had a machine in the new one, and [inaudible] people shoot morphine in me.

GW: Shooting morphine?

ED: [inaudible]

AS: Are you taking any medicine now?

ED: No.

AS: Your nerves are okay?

ED: I'm taking this--it's for my nerves--ain't no good.

AS: Are your nerves okay?

ED: Yeah. I was waiting for about a week, a month, and then I'll be off of it.

AS: Does the medicine help your nerves?

ED: No. I just told them, "No penicillin."

AS: How are your nerves right now?

ED: Shaky.

GW: Are they pretty good for your age, do you think?

ED: Yeah.

GW: How old are you now?

ED: Nineteen forty-eight, nineteen forty-five [inaudible]--about forty-eight.

GW: Forty-eight?

ED: Yeah.

GW: You said you were born in what year?

ED: Nineteen forty-five.

GW: Nineteen forty-five? When's your birthday?

ED: Three twenty-three forty-eight [3/23/48].

GW: And so, you're about forty-five now, you say?

ED: Yeah, about that far.

GW: You're from Massachusetts?

ED: Yeah.

GW: Have you been back there?

ED: No. Since I left, I left.

GW: How long ago was that?

ED: My family kicked me out [inaudible], brought me back to Massachusetts to go to work--[inaudible] first put me to sleep again--I don't know--I was in Texas,

Harlingen--I didn't want to go back--eight years.

AS: Has anybody come to visit you since you've been here?

ED: No, I have phone calls.

AS: Who's calling you?

ED: Yeah--somebody called [inaudible] me.

AS: Somebody called what?

ED: [inaudible]--getting letters, getting letters from somebody. [reaches into bag and pulls out envelope]

AS: Who are you getting letters from?

ED: I don't know who they are--from the names on it, yes.

GW: Can I see some of those letters, or can I look at some of those?

ED: Ain't nothing in it. [opens envelope]

GW: Well, was there something in it before?

ED: Yeah.

GW: Could I look at that?

ED: I threw it away.

GW: Oh, okay.

ED: I didn't keep none of that.

AS: Who wrote you a letter?

ED: They wrote me a letter of good luck.

AS: Who did?

ED: They did. People wrote letters to me once in a while.

AS: Who writes you letters?

ED: People who are outside.

AS: Do you know them?

ED: Church people.

AS: Church people?

ED: Yeah.

AS: Do you know them?

ED: No. They believe in what's his name? [inaudible] knee-high, I don't believe in that. I believe in the universe.

GW: Do you--are you in contact with this attorney from Massachusetts?

ED: This attorney from Massachusetts--I know who he is, I've met him before. He's a good attorney, but I don't know if he can handle my case.

GW: Okay, well--

ED: He's never handled a murder.

GW: Well, do you know--when did you meet him?

ED: I met him through--that [inaudible]. She knew who he was, the attorney.

AS: Has he done any work for you?

ED: No.

AS: Is he writing to you?

ED: Yes, he does--his partner did some work with me, but that's all it is.

AS: Is he working for you now?

ED: No. [inaudible]

GW: How did he get involved in your case?

ED: Ordered by the State.

GW: The State ordered him?

ED: Yeah.

GW: And he's in Massachusetts?

ED: Yeah.

AS: What state ordered him?

ED: Massachusetts--Lowell.

AS: Lowell?

AS: The State of Texas, federal court, appointed me to represent you, to help you. A federal judge--

ED: I got an attorney--if you want to talk to him, you can talk to him. He's [inaudible].

AS: Is he working for you now?

ED: Yeah.

AS: Charles?

ED: Charles.

AS: What is he doing for you?

ED: Huh?

AS: What is he doing for you?

ED: I don't know what he's doing, but he's supposed to write a letter and then send it to me.

AS: Has he written to you?

ED: Yeah. [inaudible]

GW: So, he's going to try to get you off, or get you out?

ED: Yeah.

GW: Are you pretty confident he can do that? Do you think he can do that?

ED: The State says it would happen by the twentieth, at the latest.

AS: What's happening on the twentieth?

ED: The twentieth I'm getting released that's what I said. [inaudible]

GW: Do you--do you know--

ED: --he said, he'd like to give me another jury trial. He only said it to me once--[inaudible]--that means another judge, a higher court--isn't it?

AS: What's a higher court?

ED: That's the highest court?

AS: We appealed to the higher court for you.

ED: Right. That is the highest court?

AS: They said no.

ED: They said no? Well, they're asshole liars. They ain't supposed to say no, they're supposed to give you a jury trial.

AS: You had a jury trial--

ED: One jury.

AS: One jury trial.

ED: Right.

AS: That's all you get.

ED: Right.

AS: One jury trial.

ED: No, you get three.

AS: No, you only get one jury trial--

ED: Three--

GW: Who told you three?

ED: Who told you not three?

AS: That I get one jury trial?

ED: Yeah.

AS: That's the rule.

ED: That's the rule? No, it ain't.

AS: How many jury trials did he get?

ED: How many?

AS: Your neighbor?

ED: I don't know, I don't know--three years--

AS: Do you talk to your neighbor?

ED: No.

AS: Do you talk to anybody else here?

ED: Talk to them a little bit, and that's all.

AS: What?

ED: Talk to them a little bit, and that's all.

AS: Do you know what the man next to you is here for?

ED: [inaudible]

GW: Emile, do you know that we had to get a court order, to come and see you, because you wouldn't come down to the visiting room to see us?

ED: I said I don't want anything to do with you.

GW: But the judge, the federal judge, said that--

ED: I don't care what the judge said. The judge can go to shit in hell.

AS: Well, we appreciate your talking with us.

ED: Right.

GW: Yeah, I'm glad you are. But the judge on the case now--it's in federal court, and he signed an order that allowed us to come up to your cell to see you, so that we could talk with you--and because you wouldn't come down to the visiting area. And we're just trying to help you if we can, and try and find out about your case and about you--and if we can do anything to help you--that's why we want to, that's why we want to--

ED: I go to church help here.

GW: Excuse me?

ED: I go to church help here [inaudible].

GW: The church?

ED: [inaudible] from the church. The priest--he's got all the rights to do to it.

AS: Well, what is the priest going to do for you?

ED: He's going to the court, and I'm going to the court, and he said something about life, about the whole thing what happened to me--I don't understand. He said years ago. Cases he read [inaudible], since he was knee-high--he met him. But a priest once said, that they have like a--to set me up for free.

AS: They set Mr. Duhamel free?

ED: Anybody free.

AS: And what is the priest doing for you?

ED: The priest said that he'll help me out in court.

AS: When are you going to court?

ED: I don't know on that--pretty soon.

GW: Do you know that, while we're trying--we're trying to help you--and I know you said you have another attorney, but I guess he's in Massachusetts--we're trying to help you here in Texas, and--

ED: That's alright. I'm almost certain, I am, right now.

GW: Excuse me?

ED: I'm almost certain I am.

GW: Well, I understand that, but I'm just saying that we would like to help you, and would kind of ask if you would cooperate with us, and I'm glad you're talking with us, but there are some other things that we need to know about your case, that we can't do without your help. You know, one of the things we need is to see if we can get some more of the records that are here in the prison, about your case. And your medical records, that you've been--

ED: Don't bother with it.

AS: Would you give us permission to look at those records?

ED: Go ahead.

AS: You would?

ED: Go ahead.

AS: Would you sign a piece of paper saying that we could look at those records?

ED: Yeah. And welcome to it.

AS: Officer? Can we have him sign this, please? Can we give him a pen to sign something?

GW: What we need, though, is a notary. Do you have your ID here? Your ID?

ED: No, no, no.

GW: Okay, well let me-- [to prison guard] Is there any way we can get a notary up here to notarize this? We just have to get a--

AS: You have to have a notary?

GW: Yeah. We just have to have someone else witness your signature.

ED: Oh, alright.

GW: If you can just wait, I'll give this to you in a second, okay?

ED: Alright.

GW: And you have to have your ID. Do you have your ID photo? Can I--? Can you get that?

ED: It's at the [inaudible].

AS: Oh.

GW: It's at the commissary?

ED: Yeah.

GW: You don't have an--?

ED: It'll be back--it'll be back later on.

GW: Okay, well we'll just see if they'll--

ED: You just send it down here, and I'll sign it.

GW: Okay--well, I've just got to wait for a notary to get here, to witness your signature, okay?

ED: Alright.

GW: But this is just a release that says you're giving us permission to look at your medical records here--

ED: There ain't no medical--

AS: There isn't any?

ED: No, the doctor says, "Normal."

AS: Okay. So, it would be okay if we looked at them?

ED: Yeah.

GW: Okay, well why don't you just hang on with that pen, and I'll wait until they get a notary here, because that's one of the things we wanted to look at, was just see what records are there. But--

ED: Why can't we do it down there in the front office?

GW: Excuse me?

ED: [inaudible] the guy in the front office.

GW: What are they doing down there?

ED: Yeah.

GW Well, I guess they have to send someone here to--

ED: Someone from down there for--

GW: --to witness your signature.

ED: What are they doing from down there?

GW: Excuse me? What--?

ED: What are they doing from down there? Does he sign it?

GW: Well, they just have to watch you sign it--that's all. It's just a legal--

ED: The guard could do that. He knows who I am.

GW: I know, but I guess you have to have a notary do it, Emile. So--but we'll wait and get one up here in a second, alright? Now, do you remember the date that I told you that your execution has been scheduled for?

ED: No. I don't.

GW: It's January twenty-fourth. And today, you know, is January fourth. So that's about three weeks from now. And it's about three weeks from now, that your execution's been scheduled.

[Two cans of coke are delivered to Emile Duhamel from the commissary.]

GW: Did you buy that from the commissary? How much does it cost to buy a coke?

ED: Forty cents.

GW: Uh-huh. Where do you--do you get money from people?
 
 

ED: I get money from slot machines. I play the slot machines.

GW: Oh, you play the slot machines?

ED: Yes.

GW: Where are they? Where are the slot--?

ED: Reno, Las Vegas--

GW: How do you get there to play the slot machines?

ED: [inaudible] the slot machine, and I put my name and number, on my money, my [inaudible] be it, and it'll be right there. And they play it for me.

GW: Oh, they play it for--someone out there plays it for you?

ED: Yes, well I [inaudible].

GW: And then they send you the money that you win?

ED: Yeah.

GW: How much money have you won?

ED: A bunch. [laughter]

GW: Really?

ED: Yup.

GW: Like a thousand dollars?

ED: A million.

GW: A million?

ED: Yeah.

GW: Wow. So what do you use that money for?

ED: Buy me a coke.

AS: Where is the money?

GW: Where is the money? Is it--

ED: Oh, it's in the bank now, in Harlingen. And I've got some in Kentucky. I've got a lot of [inaudible] tickets down there. Around two hundred and fifty-eight million dollars.

GW: A what kind of seat?

ED: Two hundred and fifty-eight million dollars.

GW: Yes, but what is there down there?

ED: A horse--winning ticket. I won.

GW: Wow.

ED: Picked his name right out, picked the name two times.

GW: And this attorney that you've got--did you hire him? Are you paying him?

ED: No--when I see him.

GW: I see.

ED: I want to see him. I want him to fly down here.

GW: When are you going to fly down there?

ED: I want him to fly down here. I don't know what he's up to.

GW: Okay.

ED: I'll let you know when I know.

GW: Yeah. Do you know where he's located, or where we could get in touch with--?

ED: He's in [inaudible].

GW: I mean, do you have his address, or a phone number I could call him at?

ED: Charles Seboulas [phonetic].

GW: Can you spell that?

ED: In Lowell, Massachusetts. Seboulas?

GW: Yes. Now is that Seboulas? Are you saying "S?"

ED: Seboulas.

AS: S-a-b?

ED: S--

AS: a-b?

ED: Yeah.

AS: o-

ED: Charles Seboulas?

GW: Can you spell "Charles" for me?

ED: No, I don't know how to spell Charles myself.

GW: Okay.

AS: Do you know how to spell Lowell?

ED: Lowell--L-o-w-e-l-l, Lowell. Mass--M-a-s-s, Mass.

GW: So, do you remember--I know I've gone over some of these questions before, but do you remember the hearing that took place a few months ago? Do you remember--let me ask you this--do you remember when they took you down there a couple of months ago? Do you remember leaving here?

ED: Yeah.

GW: Uh-huh.

ED: I remember leaving here.

GW: When did that happen?

ED: Afternoon.

GW: When?

ED: Afternoon--about the time I got off.

GW: I mean, how long ago was it, that you went down there?

ED: Oh, how long?

GW: Uh-huh.

ED: I was down there for a week, week-and-a-half. I don't know.

AS: What month was that?

ED: Last month.

AS: In December?

ED: Yeah.

AS: Of what year?

ED: Same year. Nineteen ninety-five.

AS: And where did you go?

ED: I went to court. It was a warrant. They had a warrant on me.

AS: For what?

ED: For burglary charges--burglary, burglary--robbery, burglary.

GW: Is that the burglary charges that they put on you, when they put your name on the teletype?

ED: I believe it is.

GW: And do you remember going to Dr. Collier's office? Do you remember that they took you to Dr. Collier's office?

ED: [inaudible]

GW: And how long were you there? Do you remember--at his office?

ED: Hour-and-a-half.

GW: An hour-and-a-half? Uh-huh.

ED: I kept him until--the case was--it was up to the family.

AS: What did you wear?

ED: Same clothes I had on down here at the [inaudible].

GW: Do you remember some of the questions he asked you?

ED: He asked me all kinds of questions.

GW: Can you give me some examples?

ED: I forget.

GW: Uh-huh. Did he tell you why he was talking to you in his office?

ED: Yeah, the State put him to it.

GW: And why did the State do that? Do you remember what he said?

ED: He said, clearing it up, because they wanted to find out if I was nuts or not, or guilty of murder.

GW: You were nuts or guilty of murder?

ED: Right.

GW: And what did he say to you?

ED: Not guilty. [inaudible]

AS: That you're not guilty of murder?

ED: He said I wasn't guilty.

AS: That you were not guilty?

ED: Not guilty. He would have told me right then and there, that I was not guilty of murder.

AS: Did he hook you up to any machines?

ED: No.

AS: Did he put any machines in you?

ED: No--[inaudible] no.

GW: Did he give you any medicine?

ED: Medicine?

GW: Yeah.

ED: No.

GW: No?

ED: I said, I didn't want no medication. I don't like to get high on pills. Painpills or Tylenol? I might get high.

GW: Right. And you said he was checking to see if you were nuts?

ED: Yes--to see if I was nuts or not.

GW: If you were nuts or not?

ED: Yeah. I was checked here--since I been here. [inaudible]. Miss Allen?

AS: Miss Allen?

GW: Oh. Uh-huh.

ED: She put me to it--the tests--to see if I was nuts or not. The doctor said, "You're normal."

AS: You're normal?

ED: Yeah.

GW: So what kind of questions did he ask, to figure out that you were normal? I mean, how did he reach that--?

ED: Quite a few times--a couple of questions about life--little girls and little boys--and Miss Allen, she put me through machines--to her brain cells [inaudible], are you guilty of murdering a little girl? Are you guilty of murdering at all? [inaudible]. I said, "No. I kept my nose clean." [inaudible] the police department.

GW: The police department knows?

ED: Oh, yeah.

GW: And what are they going to do to help you?

ED: What are they doing?

GW: Yeah.

ED: They said I'm not guilty--[inaudible]--whereabouts where I was at the time of the murder.

GW: And how are they going to use that information to help you?

ED: How are they going to use it?

GW: Yeah.

ED: Well, they use the same thing as everybody else. Just helping me out that way.

AS: If you're not guilty of murder, how come you're here?

ED: I'm here because they screwed up on the computer thing. Instead of extraditing me for a jury trial, they extradited me out the door with it.

AS: When are they going to let you out of here?

ED: I don't know.

AS: Who's helping you to get out of here?

ED: I don't know--my attorney [inaudible]. You want to call him up? You call him up on the phone and the sexy operator, and she'll tell you his name and number.

GW: Okay.

AS: Does he work in Lowell, Massachusetts?

ED: Yeah. He lives in Lowell, he works in Gloucester [inaudible].

AS: Did Dr. Collier ask you anything about the execution date? Did he tell you that you were going to be executed?

ED: No, he didn't.

AS: Did he ask you if you knew that you were going to be executed?

ED: I told him that.

AS: You told him you were going to be executed?

ED: I told him I was going to be extradited for a jury trial--the same judge. He said, "You can't do that--can't use the same judge."

GW: He said you're going to be extradited?

ED: Extradited.

GW: Uh-huh. He didn't say you were going to be put to death?

ED: No.

AS: Did he tell you that the State was going to kill you?

ED: No.

GW: What did he tell you then? What did he tell you?

ED: Oh, he said that I've got a [inaudible].

GW: And then you had a hearing down there? Do you remember that?

ED: It was just a hearing.

GW: What happened at that hearing?

ED: At the hearing he said, "The doctor says he's normal."

GW: And what happened then?

ED: That's it. He says I'm okay. He said, "Continue at a later date."

GW: Continue--?

ED: To a later date. He had no right to do that. He already set [inaudible] once. If he do that again, I'll punch his fucking head in.

GW: So what did he set away? He set a month? I didn't understand that last thing you said.

End of Side A of Cassette Tape

Side B

GW: You said he set something a month away?

ED: Yeah.

GW: And what was that he set?

ED: He said I'd be extradited for a jury trial--down here in Huntsville.

GW: Well, why were you mad at him for doing that?

ED: He's trying to extradite me for doing something [inaudible], him. He can't do that.

GW: Uh-huh. Why can't he do that?

ED: That's against the law. I've got a right to have another judge. And a jury. He didn't tell me to pick out a jury, he picked the jury. I didn't pick it. I've got a right to pick a jury by myself.

AS: That's right. You have a right to pick a jury, but you already had a jury trial.

ED: I didn't pick it.

AS: The first time, you didn't pick it?

ED: I didn't pick the first jury. I didn't like the way she sounded like, the [inaudible].

AS: Didn't the first lawyer pick the jury? Didn't your lawyer at the trial--?

ED: No, I told him he wasn't my attorney. I told him I'd get my own attorney.

AS: Did you get your own attorney?

ED: I tried to get someone in my [inaudible]--then I'd get my own attorney. The money didn't come in right.

GW: I think they've got a notary here. Can you sign this for us?

ED: Yeah.

Notary Public (NP): Where is it? [inaudible]. Spell your last name for me.

ED: D-u-h-a-m-e-l.

NP: First name--

ED: Emile.

NP: --as it is on your ID?

ED: Yeah--first name--Emile.

NP: E-m--

ED: E-m-i-l-e. Pierre--P-i-e-r-r-e. P-i-e-r-r-e.

GW: Pierre. P-i--

NP: Where is that written? Like "Pierre." Okay. And--what's your number?

ED: Seven ninety-six.

NP: Okay, and that is [inaudible]. And you're his attorney?

GW: Yes, and Amy Shugart is.

AS: Yes, I'm his attorney--I'm his attorney--Amy Shugart.

NP: What city?

GW: Houston.

AS: Amy Shugart. Houston.

NP: Okay. Alrighty. And Duhamel, you've read this and you understand what you've said--

ED: Yeah, I understand it, sure.

NP: --and you do it of your own free will?

ED: Yeah.

NP: It's awkward without a table. [placing notary stamp on medical records release]

GW: [laughter]

NP: Alrighty.

AS: Thank you very much.

GW: Thank you very much.

NP: Is that the only thing?

GW: Yes it is. Thank you.

NP: Okay.

GW: Thank you for signing that. Would you be willing to come to the visiting area and talk with us, in the future?

ED: Yeah, alright.

GW: Would you?

ED: Yeah.

AS: We'll come back up and visit you--would you come and visit us, downstairs?

ED: Yes, alright.

GW: Okay. Do you remember--my name is Greg and this is Amy--

AS: My name is Amy.

ED: Okay.

GW: And we're trying to help you out if we can, okay? Try to just talk to the judges, and find out if we can help you in your case, because I know that you think that you've got more lives, but--

ED: The State, the State's the one that said, "Don't worry about it."

GW: The State said that?

ED: Yeah.

GW: Right, I understand that, but the State or the judge has also said that you're going to be executed--

ED: Right--[inaudible]. The jury trial--[inaudible] they can't do that--they don't do that. They tell you the truth. I know, I've been through it.

GW: And I understand that that's what you think, but I know that the judge has also set a date for January twenty-fourth. So we're trying to see if--basically the only issue left in your case is whether or not you are competent to be executed, whether or not the State is permitted to execute you. That's the only issue left in your case. And we're trying to find out whether or not you are mentally competent to be executed.

ED: I'm capable.

GW: You're capable of being executed?

ED: Yes, yes.

GW: But do you understand that--

ED: They made a mistake the first time. They're making a mistake again. That's the way it goes. There's nothing you can do.

GW: Well, I know you think that you've got a few more lives left after this, but you know, I don't think you do--I think--

ED: Oh yeah, I got, I got a couple. [laughter]

GW: [laughter] I wish I did.

ED: All the way around--I've got somebody up there that's got connections.

GW: Well, I think that you're going to be executed on the twenty-fourth, and what's going to happen is that you're going to be dead. You're not going to be alive any more, and you're not going to come back.

ED: I ain't worried about it.

AS: Do you know what it means to be dead?

ED: Yep.

AS: What does it mean to be dead?

ED: Asleep. No breathing.

AS: Excuse me?

ED: No breathing.

AS: No breathing?

ED: No.

GW: So, you think you're going to wake up, as if you were asleep, like you do when you sleep at night?

ED: I don't know.

GW: Do you think you're going to wake up?

ED: I don't know. [inaudible]

GW: Do you think you have another life, then?

ED: Yeah, I got another life.

AS: Are you going to come back to this state?

ED: I hope not! [laughter]

AS: What state are you going to come back to?

ED: I'm going to Reno.

AS: What?

ED: Reno.

AS: Where is that?

ED: Reno, Nevada.

GW: Oh, Reno?

ED: Reno. I'm going to Reno and gamble.

GW: Gamble, okay. Did you get any gifts for Christmas?

ED: Yeah.

GW: What kind of things did you get?

ED: I got a comb, and I got a shampoo and soap.

GW: Where did you get that?

ED: Priest.

GW: Oh, okay.

ED: I got a suitcase.

GW: Oh, okay. Did you get--?

ED: [inaudible]

GW: That's nice. Did you get any other gifts?

ED: No, that's it.

GW: Uh-huh. Did you buy yourself any presents?

ED: Yeah, [inaudible].

GW: What did you buy?

ED: A clock.

GW: A what?

ED: A clock.

GW: Oh, you got a car?

ED: A clock--clock radio?

GW: Oh. Okay.

ED: [inaudible]

GW: Uh-huh. And did you get anything else?

ED: No.

GW: No? And did you do anything to celebrate the new year?

ED: [inaudible]

GW: No? You don't get into that, huh?

ED: No.

GW: No. Well, do you think--could you come down to the visiting area now, and talk with us a little bit more?

ED: No. [inaudible]

GW: Excuse me?

ED: I'm tired.

GW: Tired?

ED: Yeah.

GW: Well, if we come back, do you think you'd come down and talk to us?

ED: Yeah, maybe. If you come back, maybe a couple of months from now.

AS: We don't have a couple of months.

GW: Right, we don't have a couple of months.

ED: Don't worry about that.

AS: We have twenty days.

GW: If we come back sooner than that, would you come down and see us?

ED: Yeah, maybe.

GW: Because it's hard to get a court to order us--or to order the prison to let us come out to your house here. So, it's kind of difficult, and it's kind of noisy out here for us to talk, and have any kind of confidential, any private conversation, you know? So, if you could come down to the visiting area, that'd be a little better for us. You know, I'm taping this conversation too, just because I want to show the judge, so he can listen to the tape.

ED: What judge is this?

GW: This is Judge Vela. And he's the judge--he's the federal judge right now, that's--your case is in federal court right now. And he's the judge that your case is in front of, and he's the judge that ordered the prison to let us come in front of your house here, and talk to you. But he's going to--

[Commissary delivers coffee grounds to Emile Duhamel.]

ED: Huh?

Commissary: We don't have any radios.

ED: Oh.

GW: What did you get?

[sound of paper bag being opened]

GW: Oh, okay. Can I see that? [pointing to photo ID card] Is that you on there?

ED: It must be.

AS: Is it you?

GW: Here you go. [handing back photo ID card] What did you get at the commissary?

ED: Coffee. I ordered some coffee out.

GW: Oh, okay. How have you been dealing with the ban on the cigarette smoking?

ED: I quit.

GW: Did you quit?

ED: Yes.

GW: I bet it was--

ED: [inaudible]

GW: Oh, did you? I bet it was pretty hard to give it up, wasn't it?

ED: No.

GW: No?

AS: Did you smoke before?

ED: Yeah. I gave it up now. I just didn't want to do it, you know what I mean?

GW: Uh-huh. You know, the other thing I wanted to ask you is that, some people in the press are kind of interested in your case and wouldn't mind talking to you about the case.

ED: [inaudible]

GW: Excuse me?

ED: [inaudible]

GW: Well, people think that you're going to be executed on the twenty-fourth, so they want to know about your case. They want to talk to you, or hear from you, about what you think about your execution coming up.

ED: [inaudible] appeal the court, [inaudible].

GW: Right, but you don't have any appeals left now.

ED: Oh, yes, I do. I can appeal to another one.

AS: We're trying to appeal it. We're in federal court now, and we're trying to appeal it.

ED: I'll talk to my lawyer tomorrow.

AS: Okay.

GW: How are you going to get in touch with him?

ED: Call him on the phone.

AS: Do you have a telephone right here?

ED: No. I'll call him [inaudible]

GW: Excuse--?

ED: I'll try to make an appointment, and then we can make a phone call.

GW: Do you have his number? Do you know his number?

ED: No, I don't.

GW: Who's got his number for you?

ED: The operator does.

GW: Okay. And you're going to ask him about--

ED: The execution date.

GW: Okay. Has a priest talked to you about your execution date coming up?

ED: No.

GW: No?

AS: Does a priest come and visit you?

ED: Yeah.

AS: Does he talk to you about this? About the death penalty?

ED: [inaudible]

GW: And you know, I was talking with you that the press was kind of interested? Would you be willing to go down to the visiting room and talk to them about your case?

ED: Oh, no.

GW: No? How come?

ED: [inaudible]

[Emile Duhamel looks at his receipt from the commissary.]

GW: How much money do you have left in your account?

ED: There's a mistake here.

GW: How much should it be?

ED: About forty dollars.

GW: How much money should you have in there?

ED: Six dollars, fifteen [inaudible].

AS: How do you earn money while you're in here? How do you make money while you're in here?

ED: [inaudible] Reno.

GW: What do you do?

ED: [inaudible] Reno with my finger. [pointing with his index finger]

GW: What does that do with your finger? What do you do with your finger?

ED: Get down there to Reno and gamble.

GW: So, how do people in Vegas know what you want to do?

ED: Oh, they call me up on the phone.

GW: And then what do you do?

ED: I get a lawyer, [inaudible].

GW: And then, do they--you place bets or something? How does that work? How does it work where you're gambling in Vegas?

ED: Vegas?

GW: Yeah.

ED: They sent me the money by mail. By computer machine?

GW: Uh-huh.

ED: [inaudible] costs money, but I know how to use it to get a radio.

GW: Uh-huh. Do you ever get out, to go outside--

ED: Yeah.

GW: --to recreate or anything? What do you do when you go out there?

ED: Talk about my case.

GW: Uh-huh.

ED: They talk about theirs.

GW: Do you do any reading, or--

ED: No.

Prison Guard: [to Emile Duhamel] You going to rec, Chief?

ED: No. No.

GW: And do you do any reading, or do your write to anybody?

ED: No, no.

GW: No? You don't write to anybody?

ED: No.

AS: Do you watch television?

ED: Yeah.

AS: What kind of shows do you like to watch?

ED: Bugs Bunny.

AS: What?

ED: Bugs Bunny.

AS: Bugs Bunny? When is that on?

ED: Huh?

AS: When is Bugs Bunny on?

ED: Oh, I don't know. I like to watch Bugs Bunny once in a while.

AS: Do you watch anything else?

ED: No.

AS: Do you watch the news?

ED: Yeah.

AS: Who's the President right now?

ED: Oh, I don't know who that is.

GW: You don't follow that any more?

ED: No, I don't.

GW: Do you remember the last President--

ED: Last one?

GW: --that you can--?

ED: I don't know about him too.

GW: Well, you don't remember any of them?

ED: No.

GW: No? Does Ronald Reagan ring a bell?

ED: Yeah, I know Ronald Reagan was the President, but I don't pay attention to the government of my country.

GW: How come?

ED: It doesn't [inaudible].

GW: It doesn't affect you?

ED: No.

GW: Don't you think that might have some affect on your case? I mean if you can--you said the government was releasing you.

ED: Yeah--they are.

GW: So--

ED: We'll see what happens on the twentieth.

AS: What's happening on the twentieth?

ED: Twenty-fourth.

AS: On the twenty-fourth?

ED: Yeah, we'll see whether I get the death sentence again. [laughter]

AS: No, you already have the death sentence.

ED: Right. I can get another one.

AS: No, you won't get another one. They're going to kill you on the twenty-fourth.

ED: No, I've already been through that.

AS: They've already killed you?

ED: They already killed me. Put him to sleep, four months. How many months am I supposed to be put to sleep?!

AS: You were asleep for four months?

ED: Four months.

AS: And then what happened?

ED: Then they released me.

AS: Who released you?

ED: The State.

GW: But you're back here--

ED: I had a warrant on me.

AS: For what?

ED: For a burglary.

GW: Burglary?

ED: They arrested me for burglary and put me here. This is a hospital.

AS: This is a hospital?

ED: Yeah--hospital here. And they put you up in the hospital for burglary.

GW: Do you know this is Death Row you're on?

ED: Yeah, everthing is Death Row here. Even the penitentiary all the way around here is Death Row.

GW: Right.

AS: What is Death Row?

ED: Death Row means beddy-bye. [Pause] That's it, huh?.

GW: Well, I mean, it's it in terms of, like I said, we're just trying to see what we can do, to see whether or not you're mentally competent--

ED: Insane.

GW: Or insane, right. If you're insane, if you should be executed or not, because the Constitution of the United States says that--

ED: I said that before in court, and it didn't work. [laughter]

GW: When did you say that?

ED: I said that in court, and it didn't work.

GW: That the Constitution--

ED: The Constitution of my rights.

GW: Well, one of your rights, though, is that the State can't execute someone who's insane--that it's against the Eighth Amendment. It's cruel and unusual punishment to execute someone who's insane. And that's what we're trying to find out in your case.

ED: Oh, so this is [inaudible], a psychiatrist see me in Brownsville, I have tree roots in me, strangling me, in Brownsville, in Harlingen they've seen me. How many supposed to see me?

GW: And what have they come to--?

ED: They said, "Not guilty."

GW: But that's not the issue for them--

ED: The issue, the issue is that they made a mistake.

GW: But the issue that the judge has told them to look at is only whether or not you're insane.

ED: They made a mistake. So, let them make a mistake. I'll collect the money. I don't care.

AS: You're going to collect the money?

ED: I'll collect the money.

AS: What money?

ED: Death money--that money's mine.

AS: What money?

ED: The money they put me to sleep on. They put me to sleep--I'll collect the money. I'll take the money, money--you go to court, and you violate the Constitution of the United States of Brownsville--they pay you so much money, to keep you under.

GW: About what?

ED: You know--[inaudible]--talking about. He's got my constitutional rights--it stinks. [inaudible] I had it out in the court with Judge Hester.

GW: What did you say to him?

ED: I said to him, "Drop dead."

GW: What did he say to that?

ED: "I can't drop dead, I'm the judge, I'm the one who knows." I said, "No you don't--you're the one that sent me to jail, you better pay me [inaudible] I have the right to have a jury trial."

GW: You said that at this hearing?

ED: Yeah. He already knows that.

GW: This recent one?

ED: Recent one--before I said that too.

GW: Uh-huh.

ED: I said I have a right to have a jury trial. A legal jury trial, they wouldn't leave it.

GW: And you said to Judge Hester--

ED: The judge should have sentenced that judge [inaudible] out of court. They had no fingerprints.

GW: And that you should be released?

ED: Right.

GW: What did Judge Hester say to that?

ED: He said, "Fuck that." I figured. So, we'll wait and see what happens.

GW: Well what's happened is that Judge Hester has now--

ED: I've got a fingerprint in Florida, and it will look like me. It might be Florida. We're just coming against each other. He hated my guts.

GW: In Florida?

ED: Yeah. Down in Florida I met him. He's a twin. I met him--he looks like me, my twin brother--[inaudible] in court, [inaudible] the heel is off.

AS: Oh, and this is your twin?

ED: He was a twin. My twin brother [inaudible]--that twin was around that area.

GW: Is he the one that did it?

ED: He might be the one. I don't know. But he hated my guts, and he wanted me to go beddy-bye, for a murder charge.

GW: When you say beddy-bye, what do you mean by that?

ED: Beddy-bye means [inaudible]

GW: That's your what? What does it mean?

ED: [inaudible] drown people, drown people. He said I was guilty of murder, but nobody can prove it. I said, "Keep talking, and I'll put it on tape." Yeah, I put it on tape.

GW: Do you have that tape?

ED: Yeah, I got the tape down there in Florida. And I proved down there in Florida that he was guilty of blackmail murder--and might be involved with this murder here. [inaudible]

AS: What does beddy-bye mean?

ED: Beddy-bye--beddy-bye means beddy-bye--you're going beddy-bye--forever.

AS: If you go beddy-bye forever, do you wake up?

ED: No--not like [inaudible] talks about putting people to sleep, and everything else--and that's [inaudible]. He did have something to do with the murder, but they only found [inaudible] And the witnesses were mostly [inaudible], but he left.

GW: This other twin is down in Florida?

ED: Down in Florida, yeah. He's going to hear from me.

GW: How did you meet up with him?

ED: I met him through de-tox.

GW: De-tox?

ED: De-tox. I was arrested for de-tox. He was drunk, and I couldn't make it back to the hotel, so they arrested me. And after they arrested me, they checked my heel out and I had a heel, and he didn't have a heel. [inaudible]

AS: Did you grow up with him?

ED: I was living with him in de-tox. He lived on one side, and I lived on the other side. But I did hang around with him a little bit, because he was looking like me. And I didn't want everybody to think that was me on the streets, but him--is my twin.

AS: Did you grow up with him?

ED: No, I just hang around with him, that's all.

AS: Did you know when you were a little boy?

ED: No, I just knew him when I went there, that's all.

GW: What's his name, do you know?

ED: George.

GW: George?

ED: George.

AS: What's his last name?

ED: I don't know his last name. Names or last names [inaudible]. I can't prove anything yet.

GW: Does your other attorney know about this?

ED: I told him about it.

GW: Uh-huh. And wouldn't he have the same last name as you, if he's your twin?

ED: No, he's got--we're twins, we really is--[inaudible] exactly like me. But looking at him, it shows--[inaudible]--like a twin.

GW: Why isn't his last name Duhamel then?

ED: Because he's a friend on the streets.

GW: Oh, okay. So, you guys don't have the same mother?

ED: No, he's not related to me. I didn't say he was a relation.

GW: Oh. Do you have any books to read?

ED: No.

GW: No?

AS: Do you know how to read?

ED: A little bit.

GW: Did you go to school when you were younger?

ED: I went, but I was shaking too much.

GW: Yeah?

ED: [inaudible] in an orphanage in Canada. They said I can't read, because I was born that way. I can read my name, and I can read certain things on paper. I can read up to eighty sometimes. Sometimes I can't read that far. I just get all nervous [inaudible].
 
 

GW: Can you read this order that the judge signed? Can you read that for me? Just start at the top there, after--

ED: [inaudible]

GW: That first--okay, let me see that for a second. Can you read this last sentence here? Right after this word right here--after that word right there. Can you read that?

ED: [reading] [inaudible] "...this court as the..." Now, what's this mean?

GW: Which word? Point to it for me. Okay. "This court is of the opinion"--okay?

ED: Right. I read once in a while, but not too much.

GW: Okay, and what--can you read the word after that?

ED: Where?

GW: "This court is of the opinion..."

ED: "That."

GW: "That." What's that word right there?

ED: "Under?" [inaudible]

GW: Okay, that's close. It's "undersigned."

ED: "Undersigned."

GW: That's "counsel."

ED: "Counsel."

GW: "Counsel" means your attorney. And then what's it say after that?

ED: "Will be..." What?

GW: "Shall be." That word is "permitted." Can you read it after that?

ED: "To visit with [inaudible] Emile Pierre Duhamel in front of this..."

GW: "Of his."

ED: "Own will..."

GW: "In front of his." What's that word?

ED: I don't know.

GW: That's "cell."

ED: "Cell."

GW: Right here--okay? And then he crossed that out, and then what does it say after--can you see what that word is, right there?

ED: "After going through the [inaudible]..."

GW: "After giving."

ED: "After killing"--who?

GW: No, "giving," giving--giving. Can you read that word after "giving?"

ED: "The..."

GW: "The."

ED: [inaudible]

GW: "Proper notice."

ED: "Proper notice..."

GW: "Required."

ED: "Required..."

GW: "By." And then that's "TDCJ." That's the prison you're in. And then, can you read this part--this last part here?

ED: [inaudible]

GW: "For legal visits with." No? That says, "death row inmates."

ED: Oh.

GW: That's the order the judge signed. In that last sentence, it says that we should be allowed to come out in front of your cell here--

ED: You should have called.

GW: --to talk to you.

ED: You should have called.

GW: Excuse me?

ED: You should have called--on the phone.

GW: We did call and set up an appointment, but they said you wouldn't come down to the visiting area, so that's why we had to get this order, to come out front here.

ED: Right.

GW: And--but what we wanted to ask you is if we could come back sometime, and then have--

ED: We just said everything--

GW: Excuse me?

ED: --everything we wanted to say, and that's all I can say. I told you, I got a lawyer that's going to handle it. Don't worry about it.

GW: Well--

ED: I don't like to speak to anybody when I'm locked up.

GW: Well, I understand that, but Amy here--the judge appointed her to help out--

ED: I know--

GW: So, she's got to--I mean, she's under an ethical obligation. I mean, she's--the judge has told her that she has to help you out. So, she's just doing what the court has asked her to do for you.

ED: I could see the court--[inaudible], I got a lawyer now, I'm handling my own.

GW: Well, I understand that, but--

AS: Is he going to come and see you before January twenty-fourth?

ED: Huh?

AS: Is he going to come and see you before January twenty-fourth?

ED: I can see my attorney--I'll tell him. I'll tell him.

AS: When are you going to see him?

ED: I'm going to see my attorney when I call him.

AS: When are you going to call him?

ED: Next week.

AS: You better call him sooner than that. You need to call him right away, because you're going to be executed on January twenty-fourth.

ED: [inaudible] extradite. They made a mistake.

AS: Not extradite. Execute.

ED: Execute. They already made a mistake. How long has it been since you went to see the court to see the judge?

AS: Two months.

ED: Two months. You better go back again to see him.

GW: This order, though, is signed from a few weeks ago--that's the one that allows us to come out front here. So, he knows about your case, and has allowed us to come out front.

ED: [inaudible]

GW: But like I said, Amy and I want to try to help you out, and the judge has ordered Amy to represent you, so it would be easier, in the future, if you could come down to the visiting area and see us.

ED: I told you. No.

GW: No?

ED: No.

GW: How come?

ED: I don't want a lawyer. I got my own lawyer.

GW: I understand that, but Amy--

ED: I don't need one--

GW: Well, I know but--

ED: She told me I don't have no rights.

AS: I didn't tell you that.

ED: Yes, you did. You said, "You have no right to appeal this case."

AS: No, I said we're trying to help you.

ED: Yes, you did. No, you said that. He'll testify to that. [pointing to prison guard]

AS: Perhaps if I call your lawyer, he'll come back with me?

ED: Go ahead.

AS: If I bring your lawyer, will you come down to visit with him?

ED: Yeah.

AS: If I bring Charles Sabolas [phonetic], will you come down to--

ED: Seboulas.

AS: Seboulas? Would you come down to speak with him?

ED: Yeah.

GW: But, Emile, the other thing, too, is that the judge has asked, and actually appointed Amy to help you out on this case, so it would be easier for her to help you out, if you would come down to the visiting area--

ED: I already told you everything I'm going to tell you. Leave.

GW: So, would you come down there in the future?

ED: Maybe.

GW: Maybe? Do you mind if we come back some other time if we have to come back in front of your cell and talk to you?

ED: Yeah.

AS: We'll try, we'll try to contact Mr. Seboulas, to come and see you, too. I'm going to try and call him this afternoon.

ED: Oh.
 
 

GW: Do you remember her name?

ED; No, I forgot.

AS: Amy.

GW: Okay, her name's Amy. Do you remember my name?

ED: No.

GW: My name's Greg, okay? And we might try and come back and see you again. Okay?

ED: Good.

GW: But we'll have to come back before the twenty-fourth, because like I said, that's been set for your execution, okay?

AS: Do you understand that?

ED: [inaudible]

GW: Okay. We don't want to bother you any more, but thanks a lot for talking with us, okay?

AS: Thanks for talking to us.

GW; And we'll try and maybe see you a little bit later, okay?

ED: Okay.

GW: Alright, take care.

AS: Take care. Thanks.

[End of Interview with Emile Duhamel]